Welcome everyone to episode 25 of Offshoot. Today, my guest is Josh Volen the Principal and Co-founder of CIRE Equity, an $890MM NAVREIT.
Josh graduated from Cal Berkeley then spent 6 years at Marcus and Millichap where he became one of their top brokers. In 2010 he started CIRE. From 2010 to 2019 their acquisition were funded entirely through high net worth syndications. In 2019 they combined 13 of those assets into this NAVREIT, which functions just like the Blackstone BREIT, in that it is not on the public markets but does offer market-to-market transparency and limited redemption. In forming the NAVREIT they also partnered with a broker dealer to really boost their growth
Josh is unique, as he got deep expertise in the hard science of finance and real estate as well as a rich understanding of people and culture. Weaving these two strengths together has created a really powerful platform that I honestly suspect is just getting started.
Because it didn’t come out in the pod, for those interested in investing with CIRE its C I R E and you can find the group at CIREequity.com.
Listen in as we cover topics that include:
How six years in the boiler room of a Marcus and Millichap brokerage shop really added to Josh’s skill set.
How CIRE view themselves as operators, not capital allocators.
Why Josh’s primary job is replacing himself a little bit more every day.
How successful remote work requires being intentional with accountability, solid meeting rhythms, and robust meeting structures.
How their underwriting process is first: what they could lose, second: base case, and third: upside.
How CIRE Equity is really just a professionally managed family office that’s nimble enough to beat other institutional capital allocators.
The fee structure in their deal offering
The compensation offered to CIRE’s employees and how that drives alignment.
How health, wealth, and security are core components of what’s being offered to the CIRE team.
How core values inform the day-to-day operations of the company, and how those core values are the north star of what they do and how they function.
The distinction between transaction shops (most real estate businesses) and a sustainable business.
Why hiring better than yourself is critical.
And finally, the importance of showing up for yourself, first, being present and clear, setting intentions, reminding yourself of important affirmations and continually learning.
Transcript
[00:49] Kevin Choquette: Welcome everyone to part two of my conversation with Josh Volan of Sire Equity. If you haven’t already heard part one, please go back and give it a listen. We go deep on Josh’s history, the structure of Sire’s Navri or seari, where they are operating in the marketplace, and how to do remote work correctly, as well as a myriad of other items.
[01:17] All right, we’re back. Hey Josh, on the, on you were just talking about, you know, your bench and recruiting and I think a big part of what I see, you guys, you’ve already touched on it several times, but like core values, either for yourself or as you express them into the company, how do you see that impacting kind of the company as a whole and its culture, but probably also it ties into that recruiting.
[01:43] You seem very intentional about making what you do an expression of yourself and your, your core beliefs. Like that’s kind of a super massive topic to put on the table.
[01:58] But how do you think about your, your values and how they impact the company and the employees, the team?
[02:04] Josh Volen: Yeah, so it’s really interesting. So the history of like core values, right, Starting in the company coming, especially coming from the brokerage background where it’s just like a shark tank, right.
[02:16] Where I wouldn’t say that there’s a lot of core values that were being on the walls at some of the brokerage houses, even if they have them coming and starting a firm through, you know, organizations like Entrepreneurs Organization or ypo, I got a lot of learnings from that.
[02:34] Kevin Choquette: Right.
[02:35] Josh Volen: Those are peer to peer organizations of other leaders from all types of businesses, all types of walks of life, different ages and experiences. But those shared, you know, I would go to people’s offices, see their core values on their walls, or hear people talk about it.
[02:49] And it was just my initial reaction was like winning, like best places to work or something. It’s like, oh, is that like the, you know, ping pong tables and the massages and the lunches being catered in every day?
[03:00] And as I’m starting off right, I’m 27 right.
[03:02] Kevin Choquette: Yeah.
[03:03] Josh Volen: I didn’t drink coffee, right? And I have team members asking for coffee. I’m like, why do you need coffee? I don’t. I don’t get it.
[03:08] You know, just. Just so young and ignorant to that.
[03:14] But what one of my good friends said to me, he said, look, you do have core values, because what it is, is you’re modeling them, right? This is pre kids, right?
[03:25] He goes, you’re modeling these core values. They’re implicit.
[03:28] But you have core values for your company and. And people are watching you and they’re taking your cues and that it might be hard work. And it’s the loyalty and it’s relationships.
[03:36] It’s all these things.
[03:38] And I was like, oh, that’s. That’s interesting. That was true, right?
[03:44] And being intentional with that is going, okay. But the other part of is core values. So the way I look at core values real quick, Evan, I look, core values are our foundation.
[03:54] They are our compass. They are our North Star. So when we’re making any decision, hiring, firing, buying, selling, core values are being used.
[04:06] It’s how we function as a company, as people.
[04:09] And there’s two sets. There’s the permission to play core values. If you don’t have these core values, I don’t want to be around you if you are. If you are not trustworthy, if you are not loyal, if you’re not a good person.
[04:25] Like, I just.
[04:27] How are you in business, right? Like, I don’t want to be. You’re not going to be in the. Even considered. And then there’s the distinguishable differentiator core value use that make us unique as a company, right?
[04:40] So there’s two sets there. So the. The differentiator core values, we. We spend a lot of time on and we talk about a lot. And again, this is on our.
[04:51] In our annual reviews, we have a section fully on core values and how people show up and they get ranked on them, right?
[05:00] And because if someone is fired or put on a PIP or something like that, it’s part of our core values, right? So quality performance is a core value.
[05:10] Create opportunity is a core value. Create opportunity is to see things that other people don’t see. It’s to think outside the box, right? It’s to challenge, right?
[05:21] To.
[05:22] To add value, to be of value, to raise your hand, right? And then we have authentic community, right?
[05:33] And again, quality something. Sorry, going back to quality performance. Quality performance doesn’t mean that you step on your team member to get the credit for an outcome, right?
[05:45] It’s not outcome Focused, it’s also part of the journey. And that’s where authentic community combines with a core value.
[05:51] Kevin Choquette: Right.
[05:51] Josh Volen: It’s an authentic. Means a lot of different things. But to show up and to feel comfortable and have the psychological safety to raise your hand and ask questions, right? To have our office manager or a staff accountant trying to understand what a cap rate is or what, you know, why we’re buying a deal or what our strategy is like and to feel comfortable, to ask that or to raise their hand and go, hey, I think we could be doing this better, right?
[06:18] That that’s psychological safety. To be able to do that, which we talk a lot about, to be able to feel like you can show up as yourself and be appreciated, accepted and truly move from surviving to thriving.
[06:34] And then you got persistent improvement and persistent improvement. Like I said kind of early in our conversations, persistent is to overcome, persist through, to improve. And I also talked about, we don’t talk about best practices, we talk about better practices because we also believe in iteration.
[06:56] Kevin Choquette: The psychological safety 1. Just go back to that for a second.
[07:00] You know you came from Morgan Similichap brokerage.
[07:05] I haven’t ever been in the boiler room that might be that. But I know you know the industry lore and also just other, you know, type A brokerage safety doesn’t seem like something that’s aligned with the historically cliche large male ego that is prevalent in some portion of commercial real estate.
[07:31] How do you guys honor the idea of like making it a safe place when I’m sure you have some, some pretty. I suspect maybe not.
[07:42] But like there are some egos in this industry. There’s stereotypically male egos that would be like, oh my God, you’re such a effing idiot. I can’t believe you just asked that question.
[07:52] Like who are you? And that doesn’t feel safe at all. How do you, how do you, how do you do that? How do you got to like instill that level of respect and kindness across a team when there’s got to be one or two guys who think they are all that and more.
[08:09] Josh Volen: Yeah, it’s pretty interesting. So first and foremost appreciate and love my, my fraternal background of Mark Similichep and being in the brokerage industry. I really respect brokers and understand being a broker myself and having a history of how much hard work it goes into to just survive and to try to find a way to thrive in brokerage.
[08:35] But it’s definitely a self belief. You gotta believe in yourself and at some point find yourself, find the Good people within that industry from a broker standpoint. But moving into, you know, the company and how does that translate?
[08:50] Everyone has ego and ego is not a bad nor a good thing. It’s. It’s just everyone has ego, right? It’s how they use it. How does it show up and when does it show up?
[09:02] Does it show up when it’s when you’re your best self or does it show up when you’re under stress?
[09:08] Right. Does it show up when you feel secure or does it show up when you feel threatened?
[09:14] Right. So psychological safety is a big deal, especially when it comes to egos or anything else. It’s to feel comfortable in your own skin A and help people do more of that.
[09:27] Help people feel like they can articulate themselves and their feelings.
[09:32] Because we don’t. We’re not robots, Right. That is a big difference between us and AI is we have emotions, right? And sometimes those emotions can hijack us or lift us up.
[09:46] Right.
[09:48] But our core emotions and some of the ones are survival instinct emotions, when you leave a gap in a story are not the best ones, right. They’re the tribal lizard brain emotions that are fear based for survival, fight or flight.
[10:01] Like, hey, there might be a dinosaur here that’s going to eat me or this guy’s gunning for my job or she’s trying to undercut me or whatever that is. That story that’s a truth in your head at some moment.
[10:15] It may not be the truth though. And most of the time it’s not the truth.
[10:18] Kevin Choquette: Right.
[10:19] Josh Volen: And so creating an environment where people can voice, hey, this is what I’ve been thinking or even our check ins, like we have weekly check ins with our. Every person in the company has a direct check in with someone.
[10:33] And in our check ins the first thing we talk about is MEPs, mental, emotional, physical and call it spiritual, but it’s really purpose, right?
[10:42] And we do colors to those and a word and some context.
[10:46] And the reason why we do that is we’re checking on the mental health of our team, the emotional health, the physical, right. Because that’s important. And then also their purpose, feeling like they’re, they feeling like they’re aligned and going in the right direction that they’re trying to go, right?
[10:59] And we get some context there because you can go, hey, Susie is just not performing and I don’t know what the heck’s going on with her but the last three weeks she’s just been dropping off and like she’s just dropping the ball and she’s usually really Solid.
[11:12] I don’t know what’s going on there. Well, how are you gonna figure that out?
[11:16] You know, the contact.
[11:17] Kevin Choquette: You’ve got the baseline. With these chickens, we have a baseline.
[11:21] Josh Volen: With check in, right? Like, if I’m anything. So we do.
[11:25] It goes from green to red. So green, grello, yellow, relo and red. So it’s basically a 1 to 5 kind of rating, right?
[11:35] Kind of.
[11:37] Anyway, so if I’m anything less than green, you might as well say green to red, right? Because I’m. I’m typically, like, one of the most optimistic, positive people, and I’m like, even when stuff is.
[11:49] I’m not having a bad day. I’m having a bad moment, right? Or a tough moment, a learning moment, right? Like, that’s my reframe on things. So for me to be growler to green is pretty normal for.
[11:59] For someone to hear me go yellow or relo or red. Like, it’s like, whoa, right? And it’s like, hey, let’s stop. Let’s. Josh, can do you mind talking a little bit more about this?
[12:10] Or how can I support you in this?
[12:12] Kevin Choquette: Right?
[12:13] Josh Volen: So it’s the same thing with team members. You get a baseline, but you. Then you get context. Like, hey, physically, I’m feeling like a little relo, you know, and it’s come up, right?
[12:24] Like, this happens.
[12:25] Kevin Choquette: Where did you find this? Like, from. From, like the class, you know, the. The classic type a hard charging, kicking ***, taking names, either broker or real estate operator, to zoom out and be like, hang on, I need to slow this down, and I need to create a safe place for.
[12:45] For my company, which is my community. And I’m just gonna check in with them every week to see how they’re doing mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. Like, where did that come from?
[13:00] That maybe that’s like, everybody’s doing it, but this is the first conversation I’ve had where somebody’s that intentional about going, hey, let’s just slow it down and check in with our community and make sure everybody’s doing all right.
[13:14] Josh Volen: I would love to say my ego would love to say, well, that’s just because that’s who I am. No, it.
[13:21] It’s the. That’s the lifelong learning piece, right? The persistent improvement. It’s. It’s learning from that peer groups I had mentioned earlier, right? From peers and other industries or even in those meetings, ourselves, doing something like that and bringing, you know, that to the business and also hiring people better than myself with more experience to also add in and enrich the culture by Bringing things like that to it and, and honestly putting it in a process, you know, maybe I did it in a meeting once with you know, a leadership team, but then it became part of our process because I have better people on the team than myself to, to build process.
[14:04] Right. So it’s, it’s a culmination of others. We’re all standing on the shoulders with other people. Like you know, I, I struggled with, you know, being self made.
[14:15] Kevin Choquette: Right.
[14:15] Josh Volen: Like I’m not, it’s, it’s generations that I’m even here by grace, you know. And so I feel very fortunate in that gratitude. But at the end of the day this is a human, it’s human, it’s a human experience.
[14:30] This is human reaction, interactions. It’s all about relationships.
[14:34] Kevin Choquette: It’s a human enterprise.
[14:35] Josh Volen: It’s a human enterprise. Right. That’s the differentiator. And early on like, you know, people are your greatest, greatest asset and your potential greatest liability.
[14:47] Kevin Choquette: Yeah. Business for customers and employees.
[14:53] Josh Volen: Yeah. I mean like, yeah. If you could just, you know, put this all, no feelings pragmatic into an AI program that’s automated. Great.
[15:01] Kevin Choquette: Yeah. This is not realistic, not realistic at all. No. I mean this seems like this is the kind of thing as the outside observer, as a potential employee I would. Well, I could imagine it’s one of two things.
[15:14] It’s attract or repulse. Right. There’s going to be people who are like whoa, it’s way too touchy feely. And there’s other people who are going to be like that’s enlightened.
[15:22] I’m in. But also as a potential investor, the fact that you’ve got that kind of awareness around what the team is and like how to. I’m sure there’s all kinds of opportunities as you’re saying to like do the constant improvement but this seems like not insignificant at all.
[15:38] To have a recurring check in and a system that’s recording like oh, you know, actually everything was pretty good until about six weeks ago and physical went to red. It’s been red physical for six weeks and you’ve actually got the baseline and you could be like, hey, what’s going on physically?
[15:53] Let’s like talk through that.
[15:55] Josh Volen: How can we support you? Yeah, right. It’s like it’s, it’s, it’s the men. This is my messaging, always is.
[16:03] Maslow’s hierarchy and needs is very important. It’s, it’s been one of those kind of mental models. Right. Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. So you get through surviving and to have the Luxury.
[16:14] To be able to thrive is to be able to think and be introspective and be reflective. To have that, that’s a luxury.
[16:20] Kevin Choquette: Right.
[16:21] Josh Volen: If you are hand to mouth working to survive, it’s really hard to work on yourself and work through your childhood traumas. Right. Like, let’s just, let’s be real. You don’t have the time or energy potentially to do that or less of it.
[16:35] Kevin Choquette: Right.
[16:36] Josh Volen: So all the people that work with us, yeah, we are hiring, they have a technical ability, but we’re hiring competencies and we’re hiring EQ and we’re valuing EQ emotional intelligence just as much if not more than pure mental intelligence.
[16:54] Kevin Choquette: Right.
[16:55] Josh Volen: And the other quotient that we all are measuring, and this is the harder one, but we ask it in our interviews and things like that, is aq, which is their adaptability quotient to change.
[17:07] Because the only thing that’s consistent and persistent is change.
[17:12] And we are an entrepreneurial, nimble company that’s building institutional scale.
[17:17] But I want to make sure people can adapt to change. And do they have the emotional intelligence to know when they’re fighting back and pushing back because of fear versus actual concern?
[17:29] Kevin Choquette: Right.
[17:29] Josh Volen: Deciphering that. Do they have the intelligence to problem solve and critically think?
[17:34] Kevin Choquette: Right.
[17:35] Josh Volen: They’re all tied together.
[17:37] And so, yeah, that’s, that’s a big. But I want, I want to move people from surviving to thriving and survival to thriving. Surviving to thriving sometimes means that they have to leave our company.
[17:50] Kevin Choquette: Yeah, right.
[17:52] Josh Volen: And it’s coach. That degree of going, hey, it feels like you’re, you’re, you’re a duck on water right now, treading, and you’re surviving like, how can we support you? Maybe there’s something that’s better and if it’s not here, I’m happy to make those connections somewhere else.
[18:09] Kevin Choquette: Yeah. That’s also very enlightened when you’ve got people coming in on the front end. If you were going to say IQ or just hard skills, both EQ and then this aq, what kind of tools are you using to try to tease that out?
[18:27] I mean, I’ve had many conversations around the hiring piece of hr and the more I would say the consensus is it’s a coin to us. You’ll get somebody who’s an incredible asset or you’ll get somebody that’s a drag and it’s hard to know, but it sounds like you might have some different tools you’re putting into the process to try to get a higher success ratio and tease out Those attributes.
[18:58] Josh Volen: I hope so. Yeah. I would say, besides first and foremost going to our team and going, is anyone, you know, we, before we put a job out to the market, does anyone have anyone for this?
[19:08] Right. Referrals, Right.
[19:11] It’s how I met my wife. It’s how we do deals, right. It’s through relationships. Good people know good people.
[19:18] Right? And so that’s one. The second is, is our hiring process is pretty rigorous because, you know, there’s going to be the screening calls, things like that. But the screening calls are really, that’s just the, the first, you know, whatever screening call.
[19:34] And then you go into, call it an assessment. So a technical ability, right? So if there’s a minimum on technical abilities, that, that moves someone on. So that’s the IQ or experience.
[19:44] And then you go to an EQ panel which is again, we do everything through our, our core values. So that’s our culture panel. So you’ll have people that they may be working with and, and, or just people in our company that have been selected as good culture advocates, right.
[20:03] To be able to ask questions and ask for examples of how they show up. You know, we have questions around persistent improvement. We have questions around quality performance. We have questions around authentic community.
[20:14] We have questions around create opportunity. You know, like all these things. We have questions around that. That is a full panel on that. And then you get to a final panel.
[20:26] So it’s, it’s, it’s, you know who it’s again, all these learnings from different things. It’s, you know, the books like Hugh by Jeff Smart and scorecards and all these different things.
[20:41] Like, yeah, we take it all, but like, then we make it our own, right?
[20:45] But we always foundationally put it through the filter of core values.
[20:51] And we, and we hire more on competencies than I would say, direct technical skills or direct knowledge in a lot of positions. Because if we put out a job description, a, A job description is where you start, right, Kevin?
[21:05] Like a job description. And it seems simple, but really thinking through a job description and then what does success look like is outlined in that job description. What are the key metrics for the job, right?
[21:17] Who’s this job going to be working with to get the buy in and filter there, right? We hired recently, I’ll give you an example. We hired recently for a director of investor relations and this person’s on the road telling the Cyrus story, right?
[21:35] So have to have a good iq, great EQ because it’s relationship building.
[21:40] But part of their job is there’s a lot of presentations. And so what we had them do from a work product side is if they got to the step is to build a presentation on sire knowing very little, but we gave them access to our director of marketing.
[21:56] Kevin Choquette: Right.
[21:57] Josh Volen: And with. It’s just very interesting how people in, you know how they talk to potentially me versus how they talk to someone on our team.
[22:06] Kevin Choquette: Right.
[22:06] Josh Volen: You know those, the people, right. They’re good at pandering and showing their face and no ego and humble. And then all of a sudden the ego comes out. It’s like, well, you are my admin, you work for me, you do what I say.
[22:18] It was very interesting how some people treated our director of marketing and going through this process to build it. Some people used and abused, which they didn’t make it to the next interview.
[22:30] Some people used it appropriately. You could see how they interacted because that’s real life. It’s a real project. Right.
[22:37] Some people ask questions, some people didn’t ask any questions. So you learned a lot about how people process these things and how they work with team members just from that.
[22:47] Kevin Choquette: Yeah, the process is part of the interview. Right. Okay, well, work with her. It’s kind of. There’s two tests. One, what did you produce? Two, how did you work with her?
[22:55] Josh Volen: 100%.
[22:56] Kevin Choquette: Yeah. So I was, I had the opportunity to hang out with my brother this past weekend and my father, which is rare.
[23:04] And we were, I was talking with my brother and I was like, it’s starting to strike me that life is kind of a practice.
[23:11] Josh Volen: Right.
[23:11] Kevin Choquette: Like the things that we do habituate us. They. They solidify our behaviors and our beliefs. And it seems like you are being very conscious in the thing that you’re creating with sire.
[23:24] But I wonder how you think about the day and if you think about the practice in that way and know what sort of routines or habits you might have that, that keep you where you are.
[23:36] Josh Volen: Yeah. I mean, it doesn’t start with the company actually. That’s where it just continues. It’s who, wherever I go, there I am.
[23:46] Kevin Choquette: Right.
[23:47] Josh Volen: So the intentionality, there’s a double edged sword to all this, right. Because being highly not being intentional is not a double edged sword. But persistent improvement showing up in every part of your life can sometimes be a double edged sword.
[24:01] Like, hey, can you just chill out?
[24:02] Kevin Choquette: Right?
[24:02] Josh Volen: Maybe a comment from my wife every once in a while like, you’re a little intense.
[24:08] But the modeling and the leadership, the core values that shows up at home.
[24:14] Kevin Choquette: Right.
[24:14] Josh Volen: Like I learned really early with my kids and I continue to learn I’m very grateful. I have two daughters, love to death 11, soon to be 12 and 8. They’re competitive gymnasts.
[24:25] They’re extremely busy. They’re have extremely high IQs and EQs. I would definitely say women are the superior, for sure. And.
[24:35] And so, you know, what I learned really early on and again from shares from other people and other people that have been there, done that, you know, the good, the bad, the ugly from experiences is that the kids are watching us before they’re even able to talk, walk, whatever, they’re watching us.
[24:52] So it’s all being modeled, right? And decisions are being made. I can’t hear what’s going on in their heads, but decisions are being made, vows are being made. Things are happening, going on.
[25:02] So what I do matters that much more versus what I say, and what I say matters to match what I do.
[25:15] So it’s. It’s just, you know, being consistent in that regard. But again, modeling these things, right? It’s easier to show than tell and that. It’s easier to tell than show.
[25:24] But to show it means I’m living and I’m.
[25:27] It’s. It’s more believable. And so I show up every day for myself, first and foremost. You know, it’s the whole saying, you got to put the oxygen mask on yourself before you put it on someone else.
[25:37] You got to. You got to be healthy to help others. And so, you know, Maslow’s hierarchy. I’m very grateful and fortunate to have the time and the energy to invest in being introspective and working on my own stuff, right?
[25:52] My childhood stuff and my, you know, my lizard brain commentary and the way I talk to myself, you know, when I look myself in the mirror and, you know, criticize myself versus love myself, right?
[26:03] The stuff I say is probably, no, it’s for a fact. No one talks as poorly to me as I do, right?
[26:14] And so it’s really going. Is that really getting me closer to where I want to be? Is that really the truth? And challenging those things and really caring and having compassion and forgiveness and grace for myself has been a.
[26:25] That’s a lifelong practice to be present in the moment and be aware, right? And to really be here for myself and for others. That’s a lifelong practice. But I have routines, routine, right?
[26:38] Like I’m an early. I’m an early riser. I mean, this was an early call. I actually function. This is my, you know, miracle mornings, right? Alrod, miracle mornings type of thing where I typically wake up, I set my intentions for the day I, I say some affirmations around just gratitude and thankfulness and, and I get into learning, I, I, I go right into learning for myself.
[27:05] So I’ve been working on Duolingo, I’ve been learning Hebrew and I’ve been polishing up on my Portuguese and now I’m learning Japanese and I can’t speak very much of. I, I can speak Portuguese but I can barely speak those others at all.
[27:18] But I’m learning how to read and write it. And it’s just again modeling that my kids are learning Mandarin at school. And I was like, well, I can learn another language.
[27:26] And so I just added this in my morning routine to model that. And I’ve been enjoying that. And then I get into my workouts, you know, some meditation and workouts and you know, I set up the day.
[27:37] Kevin Choquette: You know that thing you said just a bit ago about the most negative speaker, if you will, in, in the domain of your life, being yourself and having gained some sort of awareness of that.
[27:58] How do you find this space to recognize and, or stop it if it’s happening or does it happen? And then after the fact you go oh, I just did that again.
[28:10] Like what’s, what’s that look like?
[28:13] Josh Volen: You know, it’s so interesting is you, if you’re not aware, how do you identify?
[28:17] Kevin Choquette: Right?
[28:17] Josh Volen: So it’s just being aware. And so it’s like meditation, like people struggle with meditation. I grew up in a household where my mom would, could meditate for hours and hours. She had a meditation room, right.
[28:28] Which I’m very grateful for. It was very spiritual, not religious household, but meditation was sitting there. It’s not that you’re not going to have thoughts coming through your head, right?
[28:39] It’s not to suspend thought, it’s just when you grab onto a thought, it’s the practice of letting go to that thought quicker, right? Not holding on for, for as long.
[28:51] And so it’s the same thing. I feel like when it comes to negative self talk or self talk in general, it’s am I holding on to something? And what, why am I even saying that?
[29:01] Why am I thinking that? And it’s, it’s analyzing that and going is that actually the truth in call it a sped up time frame or so sometimes it’s trying, it’s just getting quicker at catching it in the moment, right?
[29:16] To be a behavior modification. Behavior modifications take 90 to 120 days to break a behavior or to build a behavior and typically longer because it’s easier to slip back into old behaviors.
[29:29] But that’s just a behavior and a practice that I have in my life. It’s just okay, if I grab onto something, how. How quick can I let go?
[29:36] Kevin Choquette: Right?
[29:38] Kevin Choquette: Yeah.
[29:38] Josh Volen: And usually.
[29:39] Kevin Choquette: But you can actually see it. And then ask, is this serving me?
[29:43] Josh Volen: Is this serving me? And then after the fact, too. Reflection, right? So again, having the time, having the space. Starting the morning, starting the day, ending the day with some reflection and gratitude, right?
[29:55] Gratitude pulls me out of pretty much everything, Right. Like, it could be the worst situations, you know, you could put out there, but gratitude, right? Like there’s something to be grateful for.
[30:07] It might be hard in that moment to see it, but, I mean, I can give you example after example, right? Like, I had a traumatic ski accident. You. You know about this, right?
[30:16] Like, I’m laying there in. In this traumatic ski accident, and my leg is shattered, and I’m like, well, my head’s fine, my ribs are fine. Like, I’m alive. I’m grateful.
[30:25] Like, worst case is I lose my leg. I’ll get. This is literally what happened. Like. Like within 30 seconds of my mind, I check my body, I’m like, okay, I’m good.
[30:34] My leg is messed up. And I go, worst case is I lose my leg. As long as I get down the mountain, I’ll survive. Worst case is I lose my leg.
[30:42] I’ll get a prosthetic. I’ll get one of those cool ones where I can run really fast. Maybe I’ll, you know, maybe I’ll be a paralympian or, hey, you know what?
[30:50] At very minimum, I’ll show my kids and for myself and for people that, hey, this is not going to stop me. I’ll probably have a TED Talk on grit resilience and how to move on.
[31:00] I mean, that was my reframe within the first 35 to 40 seconds after going, okay, I’m going to survive is that’s where my head went.
[31:08] And that’s. I don’t know if that doesn’t seem normal, right? Like, that wasn’t me 10, 15 years ago, probably.
[31:14] Kevin Choquette: Right, Right.
[31:16] Josh Volen: And so that’s just working through the reframe. Gratitude is a big piece of it, but it’s also going, like, what’s going to serve me? Like, me being wallowing and, you know, wallowing when I injured my leg, right.
[31:28] I could have just laid in bed, ate a bunch of junk food and stuff, and it’s pretty depressing. I get why people with chronic injuries or major injuries don’t, you know, get depressed, but at the same time, it’s like, that’s not serving me.
[31:41] Yeah, right?
[31:42] Kevin Choquette: Yeah. That’s awesome.
[31:43] Josh Volen: I want to be. So anyway, there’s all types of those things.
[31:46] Kevin Choquette: Here’s what I’ll say. I’m grateful for you. Thank you for taking the time. I know we’re gonna run up on it here. So Mike is yours. Anything you want to share with, you know, the entrepreneurs out there who might be day zero, they might be 10 years in having a **** of a day, or.
[32:03] Or maybe they’re maybe singing the highs as. As a great day.
[32:07] And all the listeners, thanks for coming along this far. Josh, thank you for the time and. And I’ll leave it with you to. To close it out.
[32:15] Josh Volen: Yeah. Thank you, Kevin, for taking the time to talk and give me the. The opportunity.
[32:22] Yeah. What I would say to people is that I think entrepreneurship gets used a lot, and I think you can be entrepreneurial and you don’t have to be an owner of a business.
[32:32] Right. And I actually really appreciate people that have the EQ and IQ and the AQ that we talked about to realize where they are, what they really want. And sometimes it is to run a business, sometimes it’s not.
[32:45] And you can. We have a lot of entrepreneurial people in our company that I’m grateful for that.
[32:51] That to some degree have the autonomy, but they don’t have that direct responsibility, even though they feel it, which I appreciate. The other thing is, you know, just being, you know, we talked about a little bit, but being kind to yourself, you know, it.
[33:06] This too, shall pass.
[33:08] You are worth more than you sometimes give yourself credit for. And I’m just. I’m grateful to recognize that I can’t control pretty much anything.
[33:18] And letting go of control is a big one for me. And working on that practice and just being kind to myself and showing up for myself first so that way I can show for the other people I care about in my life is I’m extremely grateful for.
[33:35] So thank you for all that help have helped me get to my place where I am, and that are going to help me into the future, and I hope I can return the favor.
[33:42] So I hope everyone has a great, great day and thank you.
[33:45] Kevin Choquette: Yeah, right on. Thanks, Josh.
